Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Plt to MRO on Tue Jan 15 2019 12:43 pm

what company does salary at 11/hr
thats's a little under 23k a year.

The minimum wage in Virginia is around $7.25 per hour win 2017.

i dont know of any company that does a salaried position at that payrate.

minimum wage jobs are for kids or retirees.
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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Nightfox to DaiTengu on Sun Jan 13 2019 07:59 pm

Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: DaiTengu to MRO on Sun Jan 13 2019 12:34 am

When you're working for $7 an hour, you're basically working for
free.

that pay rate is for kids. no adult should be making that.
if someone is an adult and making that much they made some fucked up decisions in life.

Or you were raised dirt poor, in a dirt poor neighborhood, with no possibility of going to college because you couldn't afford it. You had
to start working as early as possible just to help your family make ends meet.

Now you're 35, working 2 minimum wage jobs with 2 kids because you had
to take what you could to make ends meet. You don't have time to go find another job, or take night classes (nor could you afford them), or do
any other skill-building thing.

You'd be surprised at how many people are stuck in that situation. Decisions don't enter into it. Lack of opportunity does.

I'm sure that's true for some people, but is a college education always necessary for a good-paying job? I've heard of people who don't have college degrees who are doing well. There are some jobs and companies where someone could work there way up, and if they know a lot about a part of the job or a process that a company uses to do something, perhaps they could become a manager etc..

Nightfox

Well, it depends on:
A. Where you live. I work for a British owned company and have been told by many of my British counterparts that you do not necessarily need a Degree to advance in that country. But that is only hearsay. In the US in many companies you can advance without one but you will never get above the level of department manager. In order to get to a Director or VP level at least a Bachelors degree is required. It does not matter how smart or good you are. HR executives and senior management will just not consider you. Which is a shame considering the level of quality I see in Senior management. Most who are put in those positions are actually terrible managers. They are more politicians than managers.

B. Your profession: I am in IT and there was a time when you could get very far in IT without an advanced degree. Now (and yes this sound sexist but it is true) unless you are a woman you will not get considered for a VP or CIO position without a Masters degree. Other trade related and more "hands on" professions offer better opportunities especially of you are willing to start your own business. Small and medium sized businesses are more apt to consider someone without a degree for senior management if they have proven they can do the job.

I have asked HR VPs why this is? Why require a BA/BS above experience. The reply was "Completing a Bachelors degree proves you can accomplish something". My reaction was, that is a realy poor determining factor of someones capability to complete something.

College is not for everyone. In the US close to 50% of people who start college do not finish and are saddled with big student loan debt they have nothing to show for. Because no one told them they would be bette roff as a carpenter or plumber than a college educated business manager.
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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Chai to MRO on Mon Jan 14 2019 02:55 pm

Trump talks about people on disability as freeloaders. I can
assure you, I am not a freeloader.

Really? Can you provide citation for that? I've listemed to a lot of what he has said and I have never heard that.

If you have ever worked in your life and are truly disabled then you deserve your disability. It is part of the Social Security contract the government made with you and take $ out of your check to support.

Do some people abuse the system? Yes but that should not reflect on those that are truly dsabled.

Clifra Jones
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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: MRO to Chai on Mon Jan 14 2019 09:54 pm

Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Chai to Nightfox on Mon Jan 14 2019 03:05 pm

them having 30 minute conversations. Being a salaried employee only making $11 an hour, it sucked.

what company does salary at 11/hr
thats's a little under 23k a year.

That would be pretty much illegal in most states. In order to qualilfy for exempt status (Salary, no overtime) you have to be a manager of people or a technical professional paid over $50K annually (varies by state). $23K annually, exempt even for a manager would probably get a company in trouble if an employee decided to sue.
Clifra Jones
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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Clifra to Nightfox on Thu Jan 17 2019 01:12 pm

that pay rate is for kids. no adult should be making that.
if someone is an adult and making that much they made some fucked up decisions in life.

Or you were raised dirt poor, in a dirt poor neighborhood, with no possibility of going to college because you couldn't afford it. You had to start working as early as possible just to help your family make ends meet.

you can get grants and other shit to go to school. i was raised poor and i'm not poor now. i started working early as possible and picked up skills over the years that helped me.

i have a skill set instead of excuses.

Now you're 35, working 2 minimum wage jobs with 2 kids because you had

hold on now. why is someone that's a loser in life breeding and having TWO fucking kids. so they cant make enough money to order a pizza on a friday night and they decide to fucking have 2 children?

to take what you could to make ends meet. You don't have time to go find another job, or take night classes (nor could you afford them), or do
any other skill-building thing.

i actually took up another job a while ago. it was hard. BUT.. the money
was real fucking good. i quit because they were far away and i only had an hour between jobs.

You'd be surprised at how many people are stuck in that situation. Decisions don't enter into it. Lack of opportunity does.

they sound like losers to me. make money instead of making up excuses.

we have people with no highschool diploma at my workplace that are making 25/hr ---
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Giving out free stuff could very well could result in higher taxes. Is that really a good thing?

On 07:12 06/01 , MATTHEW MUNSON wrote:

I thought living in NY is expensive and rent is high.

If you work yes. Everything is expensive. Most people come to New
York so they don't have to work and get all the free stuff. Free
medical, Free Food, Free housing. No other State gives better "hand
outs" then New York.

Some think California does the handouts better here.

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Giving out free stuff could very well could result in higher taxes. Is that really a good thing?

On 07:12 06/01 , MATTHEW MUNSON wrote:

70,000 more people who voted for my opponent could not give a **** last November.

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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: MATTHEW MUNSON to PLT on Sun Jan 20 2019 04:57 am

Giving out free stuff could very well could result in higher taxes.
Is that really a good thing?

70,000 more people who voted for my opponent could not give a **** last November.

Oh man, you got shellacked. Even worse than 2014. Are you going to try again in 2022, or have you realized that your area isn't going to vote Republican?

I'm OK with higher taxes as long as I know my fellow humans are getting taken care of. I want everyone to have access to the same medical care I do, have a roof over their heads in the cold, and don't have to go hungry. I'd be willing to pay higher taxes if it meant everyone could get a good education that includes vital critical thinking skills, as I prefer to not be surrouned by idiots.

Maybe 70,000 more people voted for your opponent because they care a little bit more about other people than those that voted for you.

DaiTengu

... Hindsight is an exact science.

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On 1/22/2019 1:43 PM, DAITENGU wrote to MATTHEW MUNSON:

Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: MATTHEW MUNSON to PLT on Sun Jan 20 2019 04:57 am

Giving out free stuff could very well could result in higher taxes.
Is that really a good thing?

70,000 more people who voted for my opponent could not give a **** last November.

Oh man, you got shellacked. Even worse than 2014. Are you going to try

again

in 2022, or have you realized that your area isn't going to vote Republican?

I'm OK with higher taxes as long as I know my fellow humans are getting

taken

care of. I want everyone to have access to the same medical care I do,

have a

roof over their heads in the cold, and don't have to go hungry. I'd be

willing

to pay higher taxes if it meant everyone could get a good education that includes vital critical thinking skills, as I prefer to not be surrouned by idiots.

Maybe 70,000 more people voted for your opponent because they care a

little bit

more about other people than those that voted for you.

I am ok with higher taxes if results happened in public education, but California is near the bottom fourth in education even if we spent 20-30k
per pupil. If kids are reading and writing despite low social economic
status then give the teachers 100k+ a year.
Its inevitable that we will likely end up with single payer, but I am
against giving public healthcare to people here illegally because it
encourages illegal immigration.

I am likely to try again if I do not get burned out. Problem is I am
finding the far left and far right repulsing in different aspects.
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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: MATTHEW MUNSON to DAITENGU on Tue Jan 22 2019 11:05 am

I am ok with higher taxes if results happened in public education, but California is near the bottom fourth in education even if we spent 20-30k per pupil. If kids are reading and writing despite low social economic status then give the teachers 100k+ a year.

The bottom 3 states for high school graduation rates look like they're Texas, Wisconsin (where I live) and California bringing up the rear. Fortunately California falls in the top 1/3 for college education rates. Wisconsin is somewhere in the bottom half, likely due to the industries in our respective states.

Its inevitable that we will likely end up with single payer, but I am against giving public healthcare to people here illegally because it encourages illegal immigration.

I hear lot of far-right fearmongering about how the illegal immigrants are coming here to live off our tax money and collect benefits, which they can't do as they don't have a social security number. It likely wouldn't be much different if we moved to single-payer.

DaiTengu

... What happens if you're scared half to death twice?

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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: DaiTengu to MATTHEW MUNSON on Tue Jan 22 2019 01:43 pm

Oh man, you got shellacked. Even worse than 2014. Are you going to try again in 2022, or have you realized that your area isn't going to vote Republican?

I'm OK with higher taxes as long as I know my fellow humans are getting take care of. I want everyone to have access to the same medical care I do, have roof over their heads in the cold, and don't have to go hungry. I'd be willi to pay higher taxes if it meant everyone could get a good education that includes vital critical thinking skills, as I prefer to not be surrouned by idiots.

Maybe 70,000 more people voted for your opponent because they care a little more about other people than those that voted for you.

The problem with that is it does not work. When you give people something for nothing as it has a value of nothing. This has been demonstrated many times. You cannot grant people prosperity, it has to be earned. The Left does not want people to have a better life they want them to be dependant. The right can't get out of their own stupidity to do anything right. The Right is to beholding to the investent crowd. Mitt Romney, who the bulk of his income comes from investments paid an effective 12% tax rate. Where a business owner making about $250K paid a rate of near 25% If you think the Democrats are going to make people earning over $10M annually pay 75% your a fool. They always talk a big game but they are also in the pockets of big wall street money and they will put in things that allows their benefactors to not pay anywhere near 75%. Are they going to tax all those young BLACK athletes making over $10M at 75%? Yeah, that will go over well.

We don't need handouts we need jobs and the government cannot provide them. The other issue is that many in America don't want a job because they have been programmed the expect those handouts.

Example: When Georgia in 2011 (I was living there at the time) passed an ill-advised imigration law that required e-verify, a system that most times is wrong! All the farm workers, legal and illegal left the state. So there was a labor shortage of farm workers. The unemployement rate in Atlanta was 12% and many were losing their unemployment. These were not laid off factory workers waiting for thier jobs back their jobs were gone. Did any of them get on a bus and go to S. Georgia where there was work? No, they just bitched about not getting their unempoyement extended!

As far as taxes are concerned I would rather pay higher State and local taxes and have a lower Federal Tax. Then I know the money is staying where I live and not being used to subsidize failed states like California!

Clifra Jones
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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: MATTHEW MUNSON to DAITENGU on Tue Jan 22 2019 11:05 am

I am ok with higher taxes if results happened in public education, but California is near the bottom fourth in education even if we spent 20-30k per pupil. If kids are reading and writing despite low social economic status then give the teachers 100k+ a year.
Its inevitable that we will likely end up with single payer, but I am against giving public healthcare to people here illegally because it encourages illegal immigration.

I am likely to try again if I do not get burned out. Problem is I am finding the far left and far right repulsing in different aspects.

Money wil not fix Public Education!

Let me tell you the story of the Kenmore, Town of Tonnawanda Union Free School District.

Now, this was back in the 80s and I have not lived in the Western NY Area since '92 but in the late 80s the districts union teacher went on strike. The School District after many failed attempts to negotiate finally told all the striking teachers they had a choice, return to work or be terminated. They advertized all over the country for teacher and hired new teachers and never negotiated a contract with the Union. They even renamed the School District.

After this this school district achieved the lowest drop out rate in NY state, the best test scores, highest graduation rate and one of the highest PAYING school districts in the state. Primarily because they got rid of the Teachers Union.

All this in an area where Unions are VERY strong!

The biggest detriment to public education is the teachers union!

Clifra Jones
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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Clifra to DaiTengu on Wed Jan 23 2019 03:42 pm

The problem with that is it does not work. When you give people something for nothing as it has a value of nothing. This has been demonstrated many times. You cannot grant people prosperity, it has to be earned. The Left does not want people to have a better life they want them to be dependant.

As a someone who is "The Left" I definately don't want people to be dependant upon handouts. Neither is anyone I know. That's why "The Left" is pushing so hard on "Free College" (We all get that it's not really free)

The right can't get out of their own stupidity to do anything right. The Right is to beholding to the investent crowd. Mitt Romney, who the bulk of his income comes from investments paid an effective 12% tax rate. Where a business owner making about $250K paid a rate of near 25%

This is a problem, and one Democrats have tried to remedy. Our current President just gave the Romneys of the world even more tax breaks.

If you think the
Democrats are going to make people earning over $10M annually pay 75% your a fool.

The number being tossed around is 70% and they wouldn't be paying $7 million in taxes. The income under $10 million would be taxed at lower rates, income earned above $10,000,000 would be taxed at 70%.

They always talk a big game but they are also in the pockets of
big wall street money and they will put in things that allows their benefactors to not pay anywhere near 75%.

If one more tax bracket is added, and someone makes $15,000,000, they'll actually be paying a tax rate of 47% (7,139,379) Assuming they are married filing jointly. It's a little bit more if they're single.

Are they going to tax all those
young BLACK athletes making over $10M at 75%? Yeah, that will go over well.

I fail to see your point here, why is the race of an athlete relevant?

We don't need handouts we need jobs and the government cannot provide them. The other issue is that many in America don't want a job because they have been programmed the expect those handouts.

This may be true for some, but definitely not most. There are single mothers working multiple jobs (16 hours or more per day, 7 days a week) just to keep their child in diapers. These people need access to an education or training to allow them to work for above minimum wage. Assuming a full 40-hour work week and 52 weeks in the year, minimum wage workers will earn $15,080 a year. For a mother and child, that's still below the Federal poverty levels.

Example: When Georgia in 2011 (I was living there at the time) passed an ill-advised imigration law that required e-verify, a system that most times is wrong! All the farm workers, legal and illegal left the state. So there was a labor shortage of farm workers. The unemployement rate in Atlanta was 12% and many were losing their unemployment. These were not laid off factory workers waiting for thier jobs back their jobs were gone. Did any of them get on a bus and go to S. Georgia where there was work? No, they just bitched about not getting their unempoyement extended!

Trump wandered into West Virginia and told a bunch of former coal miners that he was going to bring their jobs back. He can't. It's not happening, but they ate that up becasue it's what they know.

If you're unemployed, the prospect of moving is extremely risky, and unaffordable for most.

As far as taxes are concerned I would rather pay higher State and local taxes and have a lower Federal Tax. Then I know the money is staying where I live and not being used to subsidize failed states like California!

California pays more to the federal government in taxes than it receives. In fact, most very "blue" states do. NJ, NY, CT, MS IL.... all pay in far more than they get from the federal government.

Florida received about $4.50 for every dollar in fedral tax paid. Its only beaten out by North Dakota ($5.25 per $1.00) and South Carolina ($7.87 per $1.00).

DaiTengu

... Academic rivalries are so intense because the stakes are so small.

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On 1/23/2019 11:41 AM, DAITENGU wrote to MATTHEW MUNSON:

Its inevitable that we will likely end up with single payer, but I am against giving public healthcare to people here illegally because it encourages illegal immigration.

I hear lot of far-right fearmongering about how the illegal immigrants are coming here to live off our tax money and collect benefits, which they

can't do

as they don't have a social security number. It likely wouldn't be much different if we moved to single-payer.

Its CALIFORNIA they do give benefits when possible to people not here legally.


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þ wcQWK 7.0

Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Clifra to MRO on Thu Jan 17 2019 01:26 pm

That would be pretty much illegal in most states. In order to qualilfy for exempt status (Salary, no overtime) you have to be a manager of people or a technical professional paid over $50K annually (varies by state). $23K annually, exempt even for a manager would probably get a company in trouble if an employee decided to sue.

I've often wondered if salary/exempt status was specifically meant as a way for companies to avoid paying overtime, and I've wondered how compaines can get away with that.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: if you live here in Calif
By: Plt to MATTHEW MUNSON on Sun Jan 20 2019 06:25 pm

Giving out free stuff could very well could result in higher taxes. Is that really a good thing?

Maybe not.
I've heard some countries have a "basic income" which is a (small) income paid to citizens by the government - so even if you aren't working, you'd still get a small income from the government. I've heard some people have considered that in the US. I'm sure that would result in higher taxes, and I'm not sure it would be a great idea.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Nightfox to Clifra on Wed Jan 30 2019 10:13 am

Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Clifra to MRO on Thu Jan 17 2019 01:26 pm

That would be pretty much illegal in most states. In order to qualilfy for exempt status (Salary, no overtime) you have to be a manager of people or a technical professional paid over $50K annually (varies by state). $23K annually, exempt even for a manager would probably get a company in trouble if an employee decided to sue.

I've often wondered if salary/exempt status was specifically meant as a way for companies to avoid paying overtime, and I've wondered how compaines can get away with that.

If the company requires that salaried employees are present for specific hours or track those hours (e.g. on a time card), then they could definitely get in trouble (civilly or criminally, or both, I'm not sure).

digital man

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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Nightfox to Clifra on Wed Jan 30 2019 10:13 am

Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Clifra to MRO on Thu Jan 17 2019 01:26 pm

That would be pretty much illegal in most states. In order to qualilfy for exempt status (Salary, no overtime) you have to be a manager of people or a technical professional paid over $50K annually (varies by state). $23K annually, exempt even for a manager would probably get a company in trouble if an employee decided to sue.

I've often wondered if salary/exempt status was specifically meant as a way for companies to avoid paying overtime, and I've wondered how compaines can get away with that.

Nightfox

salary has a comfort factor due to the same paycheck no matter how little you work and there are minimum pay requirements to be exempt.
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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Nightfox to Clifra on Wed Jan 30 2019 10:13 am

Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Clifra to MRO on Thu Jan 17 2019 01:26 pm

That would be pretty much illegal in most states. In order to qualilfy
for exempt status (Salary, no overtime) you have to be a manager of
people or a technical professional paid over $50K annually (varies by state). $23K annually, exempt even for a manager would probably get a company in trouble if an employee decided to sue.

I've often wondered if salary/exempt status was specifically meant as a way companies to avoid paying overtime, and I've wondered how compaines can get away with that.

They get away with it all the time. Especialy in if office situations where thry offer "salary" positions of around $30K. Accounting, IT etc. In my IT career I have seen people on salary making $35K working 50-60 hour weeks. This is blatently illegal but if no employee sues then they just keep getting away with it.

Salary exploitation is a big problem but mst peple at thar level are thankful for the job and the career start so they do not say anything. It is only when someone gets fired or leaves that they do anything about it.
Clifra Jones
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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Wed Jan 30 2019 03:52 pm

Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Nightfox to Clifra on Wed Jan 30 2019 10:13 am

Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Clifra to MRO on Thu Jan 17 2019 01:26 pm

That would be pretty much illegal in most states. In order to

qualilfy Cl> for exempt status (Salary, no overtime) you have to be a manager of Cl> people or a technical professional paid over $50K
annually (varies by Cl> state). $23K annually, exempt even for a manager would probably get a Cl> company in trouble if an employee decided to
sue.

I've often wondered if salary/exempt status was specifically meant as a way for companies to avoid paying overtime, and I've wondered how compaines can get away with that.

If the company requires that salaried employees are present for specific hou or track those hours (e.g. on a time card), then they could definitely get i trouble (civilly or criminally, or both, I'm not sure).

digital man

Even if you don't track time you can still get in serious trouble. I worked for a company where our Help Desk were all being payed less than $40K salary working 50+ hours a week. One of the ladies left and sued, they made the company pay an arbitrary amount (the Judge just made it up because they we were not tracking time) to all the current and former employees for back overtime. It cost millions. A real hard lesson learned and a lot of salaried employees were switched to hourly.
Clifra Jones
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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Clifra to Nightfox on Tue Feb 05 2019 07:21 am

career I have seen people on salary making $35K working 50-60 hour weeks. This is blatently illegal but if no employee sues then they just keep

fuck that shit.
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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Nightfox to DaiTengu on Mon Jan 14 2019 03:32 pm

There are some countries that have free college tuition, and I sometimes go back and forth on whether that would be a good idea or not. It would mean higher taxes, but I also imagine being a student being able to go to college and not having to worry about having college debt in the future.

I've heard this "free college tuition" mentioned a lot as of late. What kind of education will students get for free?? What will the value of degree earned by a school that offers "free tution" verses paid tuition? I think this idea of "free tuition" is only going to cause more problems. Who's going to monitor all this? The Government?? Well let's just become a socialist nation why don't we??

That's just my opnion..... I could be wrong.

HusTler

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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: HusTler to Nightfox on Mon Feb 11 2019 10:38 am

I've heard this "free college tuition" mentioned a lot as of late. What kind of education will students get for free?? What will the value of degree earned by a school that offers "free tution" verses paid tuition? I

Works well in Denmark, Norway and Finland. They rank slightly better than we do in general education, too.

think this idea of "free tuition" is only going to cause more problems. Who's going to monitor all this? The Government?? Well let's just become a socialist nation why don't we??

So "Free college" (We get it, it's not really "free") is the tipping point to "Socialst Nation"? Or is it Universal Healthcare? What if we combined both, then would be a socialist country? What to you is a "socialist nation" ?

DaiTengu

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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: HusTler to Nightfox on Mon Feb 11 2019 10:38 am

I've heard this "free college tuition" mentioned a lot as of late. What kind of education will students get for free?? What will the value of degree earned by a school that offers "free tution" verses paid tuition? I think this idea of "free tuition" is only going to cause more problems. Who's going to monitor all this? The Government?? Well let's just become a socialist nation why don't we??

Nothing is totally free though.. By "free tuition", they just mean the student doesn't have the burden of paying the college fees, and that it's covered by the government. And I'd doubt that their education is any less valuable just because someone else is covering the cost.

Lately I've been hearing that colleges in the US these days have some of the highest costs they've ever had. College students in the US are getting stuck with debt that will take many years to pay off, which will be made even more difficult if they can't find a job right away after graduating. I've heard of more and more people who are choosing not to go to college due to the high costs these days. But in order to have a good workforce for all the jobs needed, we need to have a well educated workforce.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: HusTler to Nightfox on Mon Feb 11 2019 10:38 am

I've heard this "free college tuition" mentioned a lot as of late. What kind of education will students get for free?? What will the value of degree earned by a school that offers "free tution" verses paid tuition? I think this idea of "free tuition" is only going to cause more problems. Who's going to monitor all this? The Government?? Well let's just become a socialist nation why don't we??

we had a guy that was from russia and was a doctor over there. he cleaned the floors. i wouldnt trust him for anything medical related.
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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Nightfox to HusTler on Mon Feb 11 2019 12:43 pm

stuck with debt that will take many years to pay off, which will be made even more difficult if they can't find a job right away after graduating. I've heard of more and more people who are choosing not to go to college due to the high costs these days. But in order to have a good workforce for all the jobs needed, we need to have a well educated workforce.

there are people that are just bad workers and lack soft skills. some people lack concentration. there's a lot of people on drugs.


i've worked with a lot of people who were sitting at home doing nothing and getting paid for it when obama was in charge. they dont want to come back to the work force.

we have people that do well at my company and they end up disappearing for a week and get fired.
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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: DaiTengu to HusTler on Mon Feb 11 2019 01:02 pm

I've heard this "free college tuition" mentioned a lot as of late.
What kind of education will students get for free?? What will the
value of degree earned by a school that offers "free tution" verses

both, then would be a socialist country? What to you is a "socialist

A socialist nation is a nation run by it's government. There's no such thing as "Free". Somebody has to pay. Don't get me wrong. It's ridiculous that a college graduate has to start their working careers 100,000 or more in debt. Something needs to be done. I just don't think "Free" college is the answer. The States need to regulate the price of college. But...if the States can regulate the price of college why not allow them to regulate the price of cars or the price of a cheesebuger? Once we allow the government to interfere with American business we then become a Socialist country. Don't kid yourself..College is a business..BIG Business. ;-)

That's just my opinion....I could be wrong.

HusTler

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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: HusTler to DaiTengu on Tue Feb 12 2019 05:32 pm

A socialist nation is a nation run by it's government. There's no such thing as "Free". Somebody has to pay. Don't get me wrong. It's ridiculous that a college graduate has to start their working careers 100,000 or more in debt. Something needs to be done. I just don't think "Free" college is the answer. The States need to regulate the price of college. But...if the States can regulate the price of college why not allow them to regulate the price of cars or the price of a cheesebuger? Once we allow the government to interfere with American business we then become a Socialist country. Don't kid yourself..College is a business..BIG Business. ;-)

Doesn't the US government regulate the prices of some things to an extent? Regarding cheeseburgers, as in your example, I've heard that government subsidies actually helps keep the price of fast food low in the US (perhaps indirectly):
https://nyti.ms/2UTAMEf
Full URL: https://well.blods.nytimes/com/2016/07/19/how-the-government-supports-your-junk -food-habit

I'm not sure why college tuition has been going up so high, but if there's anything like price fixing going on, perhaps the government could step in and do something about it. Also, naturally they'll want to make money at it, but that doesn't necessarily make college a bad thing. The staff all need to get paid and make a living, and I think it's resonable that anyone wanting to have a career as a collge instructor should make a decent living.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: HusTler to DaiTengu on Tue Feb 12 2019 05:32 pm

A socialist nation is a nation run by it's government. There's no such thing as "Free". Somebody has to pay. Don't get me wrong. It's ridiculous that a college graduate has to start their working careers 100,000 or more in debt. Something needs to be done. I just don't think "Free" college is the answer. The States need to regulate the price of college. But...if the States can regulate the price of college why not allow them to regulate the price of cars or the price of a cheesebuger? Once we allow the government to interfere with American business we then become a Socialist country. Don't kid yourself..College is a business..BIG Business. ;-)

I think the "for profit" colleges are part of the problem.

The way I see the "free college" (as I mentioned previously, we all know it's not really "free") thing working is that the government would provide college education up to a certain level. Be it 2 year vocational school, or 4 year university, but further training/education would be up to the student.

DaiTengu

... You! What PLANET is this? McCoy, stardate 3134.0.

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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Nightfox to HusTler on Tue Feb 12 2019 01:08 pm

anything like price fixing going on, perhaps the government could step in and do something about it. Also, naturally they'll want to make money at it, but that doesn't necessarily make college a bad thing. The staff all

Anytime the government "steps in" we are all in trouble. Look whats going on with our government right now. Build a Wall, Don't build a Wall, Don't call it a wall. Can you imagine trying to tackle college tuition? OMG!!!

HusTler

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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: HusTler to Nightfox on Wed Feb 13 2019 09:44 am

Anytime the government "steps in" we are all in trouble. Look whats going on with our government right now. Build a Wall, Don't build a Wall, Don't call it a wall. Can you imagine trying to tackle college tuition? OMG!!!

Ehhhh, I don't believe that. It wasn't always that way, and many a great project got completed thanks to the government (Interstate Highway System, New Deal projects, Food Safety, etc.)

The issue is we have let politics get to the point it is today. Partisan in every way. We have a lot of bright people working in various roles in the government. However, those bright people are muffled/ignored due to partisan politics and ideology of those above them.

Rob

dmxrob þ BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988

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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: HusTler to Nightfox on Mon Feb 11 2019 10:38 am

I've heard this "free college tuition" mentioned a lot as of late. What kind of education will students get for free?? What will the value of degree earn by a school that offers "free tution" verses paid tuition? I think this idea "free tuition" is only going to cause more problems. Who's going to monitor this? The Government?? Well let's just become a socialist nation why don't w

That's just my opnion..... I could be wrong.

Public education in Germany goes to the equivelent of an Associates Degree (IIRC). But they do things much differently than we d. Thier educational system is very skills based and they have an extensive apprentiship system. Whilemost of the US based public education system is based around college preperation and endoctrination.

There is no reason why we cannot graduate young people from high school with marketable job skills. There is just no desire to do this in the eduational communitee. Secondary education is BIG BUSINESS. The shame is 50% of people who start college do not finish and then they have huge debt to pay back with nothing to show for it.
Clifra Jones
Sysop, Days of Old BBS
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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Nightfox to HusTler on Mon Feb 11 2019 12:43 pm

Nothing is totally free though.. By "free tuition", they just mean the stude doesn't have the burden of paying the college fees, and that it's covered by the government. And I'd doubt that their education is any less valuable just because someone else is covering the cost.

Lately I've been hearing that colleges in the US these days have some of the highest costs they've ever had. College students in the US are getting stuck with debt that will take many years to pay off, which will be made even more difficult if they can't find a job right away after graduating. I've heard o more and more people who are choosing not to go to college due to the high costs these days. But in order to have a good workforce for all the jobs needed, we need to have a well educated workforce.

Nightfox

The reason the cost keeps going up is that the Student/family does not pay in most instances. They are getting grants and loans. Yes the student does have to pay the loan back but at the time they are in college they are not thinking about that. The universities see this easy money and just keep raising tuitions. It is the same problem with health care. The patient isn't paying it is the insurance company or the government. Go into a hospital for a procedure and tell them your paying cash and ask for the cash price, it will be considerably lower than the insurance price. Why? Because of all the administrative cost to get payed by the insurance company or the government.

Everyone wonders why the Military pays so much for stuff. It is because of all the regulations that a supplier has to abide by in order to get on the approved supplier list. It adds significant cost to the whole process of making and supplying the product.

When someone else pays for something its value deminishes. We see the same thing with housing. Section 8 housing is great for landlords, they get paid with no worries but the residents have no "skin in the game" when it comes to the property it has "no value" to them and this is why Section 8 housing ruins neighborhoods. I have seen this in the city I live in. Nice safe multi-ethnic affordable neighborhoods were ruined when public transportation came to these neighborhoods and all the appartment complexes went section 8 soon after. Now they are crime ridden s-holes that no decent people will live in.

If university is free a college degree will be as useless as a high school deploma. Please don't site other countries as exanples because places like Germany, Norway etc actually can do this better than Americans. Our educatonal system is a mess and I have no confidence that this will ever get any better. Clifra Jones
Sysop, Days of Old BBS
Hostname: daysofoldbbs.wilhartsolutions.com
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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Nightfox to HusTler on Tue Feb 12 2019 01:08 pm

Doesn't the US government regulate the prices of some things to an extent? Regarding cheeseburgers, as in your example, I've heard that government subsidies actually helps keep the price of fast food low in the US (perhaps indirectly):
https://nyti.ms/2UTAMEf
Full URL: https://well.blods.nytimes/com/2016/07/19/how-the-government-supports-your-j -food-habit

I'm not sure why college tuition has been going up so high, but if there's anything like price fixing going on, perhaps the government could step in an do something about it. Also, naturally they'll want to make money at it, but that doesn't necessarily make college a bad thing. The staff all need to get paid and make a living, and I think it's resonable that anyone wanting to ha a career as a collge instructor should make a decent living.

Nightfox

The government subsidised much of the agriculture indistry in the US. Ethenol in gas? Not really for the environment as much as it is a subsidy to the corn industry. This has a lot to do with international trade. If food products were free to trade all ove rthe wold American farmers would make great monet selling their food internationally but other countriess restrict what we can sell there. So the government subsidises US farmers to compensate for this.

It is not Price Fixing per say. It is the goverment giving money to the producer to reduce their costs so they can sell cheaper. (symantics)

As I said, tuition would not be so high if all this "free money" was not available. Most don't look at the price of tuition unless Mommy and Daddy as footing the whole bill. So there is little market pressure for the Colleges to hold down tuitions.

Anyone who lived through the 70's should understand the dangers of price fixing. Nixon tried this by controlling wages and prices and it was a disaster. Clifra Jones
Sysop, Days of Old BBS
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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Dmxrob to HusTler on Wed Feb 13 2019 12:12 pm

Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: HusTler to Nightfox on Wed Feb 13 2019 09:44 am

Anytime the government "steps in" we are all in trouble. Look whats
going on with our government right now. Build a Wall, Don't build a
Wall, Don't call it a wall. Can you imagine trying to tackle college tuition? OMG!!!

Ehhhh, I don't believe that. It wasn't always that way, and many a great project got completed thanks to the government (Interstate Highway System, N Deal projects, Food Safety, etc.)

The issue is we have let politics get to the point it is today. Partisan in every way. We have a lot of bright people working in various roles in the government. However, those bright people are muffled/ignored due to partisan politics and ideology of those above them.

Rob

You don't think public works projects are a mess? Let someone who works in this industry fill you in.

Why are traffic problems never fixed?

Local transit authority wants to fix a traffic problem. So they put out bids for a new highway design. this bidding process can take up to 1 year.

Design is accepted but because the US government is paying a large portion of the cost the plans have to be approved by the federal DOT. This process canb take from 2-3 years, so by this time the traffic problem is worse as more prople moved into the area the fix was intended for but because the process takes so long this plan is implemented even though it will not fix the problem.

Government can do many things well but we all see how they do many thngs very poorly. Public education on this country is a mess. Politics are embedded in public education to the detriment of our children. The Teachers Union only cares about themselves and not your kids. The best school districts in the country are non-union. For profit colleges are some of the best in the country. Where we see problems with for profit schools is in the trade school industry. Clifra Jones
Sysop, Days of Old BBS
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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Clifra to Dmxrob on Thu Feb 14 2019 09:20 am

very poorly. Public education on this country is a mess. Politics are embedded in public education to the detriment of our children. The Teachers Union only cares about themselves and not your kids. The best school districts in the country are non-union. For profit colleges are some of the

Well, we all have our opinions.

I believe the education I got from the St. Louis Public Schools was amazing. I had teachers who truely pushed me to do my very best, challenged me and I am a better person today because of all that.

Rob

dmxrob þ BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988

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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Clifra to Nightfox on Thu Feb 14 2019 09:04 am

As I said, tuition would not be so high if all this "free money" was not available. Most don't look at the price of tuition unless Mommy and Daddy as footing the whole bill. So there is little market pressure for the Colleges to hold down tuitions.

It seems to me that many (or most?) college students need to get loans to fund their college education, which isn't free money. More and more often lately, I've been hearing of people who are choosing not to go to college because they don't want to get into such high debt.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Dmxrob to Clifra on Thu Feb 14 2019 11:09 am

Well, we all have our opinions.

I believe the education I got from the St. Louis Public Schools was amazing. I had teachers who truely pushed me to do my very best, challenged me and I am a better person today because of all that.

when i was in public school only the 'special kids' got that attention.

no i wasnt one of them.
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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: MRO to Dmxrob on Fri Feb 15 2019 05:43 pm

when i was in public school only the 'special kids' got that attention.

no i wasnt one of them.

So who decided who was "special"??

HusTler

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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Heliarc to MRO on Sat Feb 23 2019 11:39 pm

Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: MRO to Dmxrob on Fri Feb 15 2019 05:43 pm

when i was in public school only the 'special kids' got that attention.

no i wasnt one of them.

So who decided who was "special"??

i'm talking about retards
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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: MRO to Heliarc on Sat Feb 23 2019 10:50 pm

So who decided who was "special"??

i'm talking about retards

It's been my experience that people who use deragatory language such as this to describe others aren't worth talking too.


dmxrob þ BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988

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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Dmxrob to MRO on Sun Feb 24 2019 08:49 am

So who decided who was "special"??

i'm talking about retards

It's been my experience that people who use deragatory language such as this to describe others aren't worth talking too.

but but you just did. ?????

... The cause of problems are solutions!

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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Dmxrob to MRO on Sun Feb 24 2019 08:49 am

Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: MRO to Heliarc on Sat Feb 23 2019 10:50 pm

So who decided who was "special"??

i'm talking about retards

It's been my experience that people who use deragatory language such as this to describe others aren't worth talking too.

you mean like niggers and faggots
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Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: HusTler to Dmxrob on Sun Feb 24 2019 10:31 am

Re: Re: if you live here in C
By: Dmxrob to MRO on Sun Feb 24 2019 08:49 am

So who decided who was "special"??

i'm talking about retards

It's been my experience that people who use deragatory language such as this to describe others aren't worth talking too.

but but you just did. ?????

he was too daft to understand what 'special' meant so i went full blunt on
his ass.
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